Need immediate help about birth certificate

[LeeR]

Want to take my brother-in-law for his first visit to Abaco. He has a birth certificate from Pennsylvania but it does not have a raised seal. It has a seal but not raised. It states on the back that it will be accepted by school authorities. We are supposed to leave Thursday this week. Any ideas if this is going to work?

[norvell]

You need to determine if it is an original, or an official copy that was ordered and paid for through the State. It cannot be a xerox copy.
My husband has a PA birth certificate too and as I recall, the seal is not raised. Some states have a raised seal, and some do not.
I will double check when I get home this evening and let you know what his looks like. He's used it dozens of time w/no problem.


Want to take my brother-in-law for his first visit to Abaco. He has a birth certificate from Pennsylvania but it does not have a raised seal. It has a seal but not raised. It states on the back that it will be accepted by school authorities. We are supposed to leave Thursday this week. Any ideas if this is going to work?

[DrRalph]

Your air carrier may not even let him board. The last time we took Vintage to MHH from Daytona, a man was denied his seat because he presented a non-original birth certificate and a DL as his ID. They told him that when the carrier hauls a passenger to The Bahamas and he is refused entry, the carrier has to eat the cost, and they don't like to do that.

[airfloridagreg]

As far as flying with the company I work for, a photo copy of a birth certificate will suffice as long as it has been verified by a notary public. Ultimately though an original is much better but either will do. Hope you have a great trip!

[floridacargocat]

The observation of ******* about the refusal of an airline to let a confirmed passenger board the aircraft bound for The Bahamas is a case in point. Imagine, the aircraft has 9 seats for passengers and all 9 seats are booked by returning passengers. The person in question is denied admittance to The Bahamas, the airline has to pay a penalty, and the person has to return immediately. Who of the initially 9 pax booked on the return flight would like to be "bumped off"? Further, the airline has to modify the passenger manifest for electronic resubmission to US Customs.
All this effort and inconvenience due to a missing proper documentation. I have written ab extensio on this board about the need for passports, and I repeat myself. GET A PASSPORT PLEASE ASAP or the airlines will refuse boarding.
In another thread I have written about the upcoming legislation which eliminates the convenience of traveling to The Bahamas with just a birth certificate (in technical terms, the revocation of the Western Hemisphere exemption). The upcoming legislation will also deal with new standards for birth certificates, but to remain on track:
Get a passport please, there will be new standards on how a US citizen will have to prove that he/she is a US citizen. TSA is very ingenious in its demands as part of its charter and broad mandate.
A US driving license is not an accepted document for international travel, as it does not denote the legal status/citizenship of the passenger. Me, I have a FL DL, but I am not a US citizen, I still have to show my Passport and Green Card, when I re-enter the USA coming from abroad.
The travel industry will have to change, so will the air charter companies, and in the end it is up to the passengers/travellers who have but one option, get a passport.
And the earlier board members are informed about these changes (document requirements) the better they can come to terms with these changes.

[bertram00]

Why not get a Passport and solve all your problems?

[mwinni]

LeeR,

This happened to us a couple of years ago with a friend of our daughters we took with us. The airline had a Notary and he simply notarized her birth certificate copy with an old fashioned notary seal. The old fashioned seals are raised. The notarizing does not make it a certified copy, but to all concerned it appears as if it is one. You need a Notary with these old time seals--I have one and it is where you put the paper between two plates and squeeze the handles they then make a raised seal. Again if the people are sharp enough they may realize that it is not a real ceritfied copy, but obviously you have a time constraint. The Bahamians generally don't look at the documents as closely as the Americans. Its a little sneaky, times have changed since 9/11, you may get caught, this is my disclaimer. The best thing would be if he could get a certified copy. The passport idea is no good as it can tak up to 6 weeks to get one. In the future everyone should get a passport. They are good for ten years and it simplifies greatly any travel.

Mark Winninger

[norvell]

We all know it's better to have a passport, but she is leaving in two days, so let's try to offer some help.
I checked my husband's PA birth certificate and the round seal is in the bottom right corner of the certificate, and although it appears not to be raised, if you run your fingers across it, it you can feel that it is, and it can be seen on the back. There is also a 7 digit number w/a letter in front of of it, printed across the back left corner. There is also a "form" imprinted on the back to make any changes or corrections to the certificate. My husband was born in '59 so not sure how things have changed since then, or were before then. Hope this helps.

[John Sporck]

An expedited passport can be obtained in twenty-four (24) hours. Suggest a Google search for "expedited passport". There are several entities listed that can help.

[TurtleDreams]

That's what it's going to take. We had to leave a good friend at the airport because the outgoing airline would not let him through (in this case AA), because the birth certificate did not have a raised seal. We were devistatated and so was he. Airline officials do not have the time or the inclination to determine what state had what as there official document. They have to make a decision with 100 people waiting to get their tickets and board. You must have all this worked out before you arrive or expect disappointment. All those reading this; apply for your passport TOMORROW and let anyone know who might ever be your guest in the Bahamas to do the same.

[Sail41]

Hi,

I have a PA orginal birth certificate and my doesn't have a raised seal either. I'm sure that your friends certificate is authentic.

[Gail Quante]

In most states you can pay a fee and for a birth certificate with a raised seal. You really need the passport, but the raised seal would be a quick fix. Most states issue a birth certificate without the raised seal. It is your responsibility to "take the next" step when you need further documentation. Mine was issued in Florida and when I needed the raised seal to get a passport, my father went to Dade County paid the $$ and got the certificate. Come to find out I had been misnamed...........had to pay another fee to correct my middle name from Merle to Meree!! It was correct on the hospital issue, but not the county issue.

[floridacargocat]

Another issue comes to my mind in this context, which is a name change (marriage, adoption etc.). An existing passport (with the machine readable zone at the bottom) reflects the name at the time of issueance of the passport. In case of name change, see the procedure at http://travel.state.gov/passport/fri_name.html. The passenger traveling with his "old name" passport has to indicate "the old name" until he/she gets a new passport, reflecting the new name in the machine readable zone.
So if someone gets married out in The Bahamas, this passenger still comes back to the USA with the old name (for passenger manifest purposes).

[OCTOPUSSY]

I'm so sorry LeeR to hear about your delimma.
FloridaCargoCat and so many others who have responded to your question are absolutely right about the passport issue, but you are not unlike many who have waited until its almost time to travel to the Bahamas with documentation that is questionable.

It seems that standards and criteria for travel is in place, however, interpretation of that criteria is sometimes up to the particular airline and/or customs/immigration officer.
The Bahamas customs and immigration offices are usually more tolerant of a birth certificate (BC) without a raised seal, and will usually not blink an eye about this detail. The US airlines, Customs & Immigration on the other hand have very strict criteria. Fines, penalties and denial of entry back into the country are very real possibilities. One possible way to find an answer is to call Customs/Immigration yourself from the port which you are departing (and most likely returning) and ask them if this type of BC is acceptable. Get the officers name if you are given the green light, thank them and then comply with any changes they suggest to you for future travel to the islands. I have found most of the customs and immigration really do want to help you get there. The document you have seems adequate, but only Customs or the airline can advise you properly. Gone are the days of traveling on a voters registration and DL or trying to convince somebody from the airline or customs that "I've done it before". Post 911 everything has changed...including statutes, CFRs, and looking the other way when international travel documents consist of copies, faxes or inadequate paperwork.
Call customs, if they say yes, call your airline and make sure they will let you board with the blessing of customs. Best of luck to you!

[RickNJen]

Admittedly this was pre-9/11 but my first Abaco experience the customs folks honored an original birth certificate that did not use a "raised" seal, but which had a multi-colored seal that showed it was original. The State of ALabama did not issue actual RAISED seals, but it was not a problem, since the document was clearly original. Still, passport is the way to go. Incidentally, usually the concern is re-entry into the States, but my most recent trip on Vintage Airlines flying back into Melbourne, FL in July, 2004, a fellow passenger, a teenage minor flying with his father, was allowed reentry without much hassle and he only had a photo copy of a birth certificate. It really seems to depend on who you get. On the one hand, I was amazed, but on the other, the officer used some common sense judgement, but would probably gotten in trouble for it. What was she supposed to do? Put the kid back on the plane to Abaco? Passport is the cleanest, most hasslefree way to go, and even if you have to pay the extra cash for expedited, it's worth the peace of mind.

[floridacargocat]

Claiming that CBP officer (initials) has verbally indicated that your document (birth certificate w/o raised seal) is sufficient as proof of your US citizenship would/should not convince an airline employee to let you board. Yes, CBP officers are definitely helpful and give valuable advice (especially the guys at PBI), but the airline bears the responsibility, and in most cases it will not be the same CBP officer (initials) who will do the arrival processing.
I am not going to repeat my mantra about passports.
What can happen at the port of entry (upon your return), that the US citizen having insufficient proof of citizenship (at least initially) will be exposed to a more intense questioning, resulting in the holdup of the passengers behind him/her.
It is also possible, that - and now read very carefully - your verbal claim of being a US citizen might be accepted by the CBP officer, it depends on circumstances.
If I were the guy responsible for checking the paperwork of the passenger before boarding, I would have great hesitations to let this passengers board, and most likely would not accept this passenger. The problem does not lie here at the time of embarkation. The problem lies at the time of reservation, when the necessary questions are not asked. If the answers by the passenger reveal an insufficient set of documents, at least the decision for the airline is relatively easy, and the passenger may still have some time to get a passport on anexpedited basis, and then both sides could be happy, that an embarrasing situation has been avoided. Trust me.

[LeeR]

Called the U. S. State Department and they said that a birth certificate had to have a raised seal to reenter the USA.
Called the state (PA.) where the birth certificate was issued and they are sending a certified raised seal birth certificate to our hotel, next day air. We will have it tomorrow when we check in to our room in West Palm Beach. Staying in WPB for a day to arrange shipment of materials (Home Depot)to repair damage to our place in TC. My brother-in-law is lucky we are staying over a day in WPB.
I concur with all about having a passport (we have had ours for several years, once we new we where going to Abaco every year).
I've been with this board for 5 or 6 years now and have always found good advice.
Thanks all!
We'll have a Mount Gay and Tonic for all!!

[Wonkee]

You did the exact thing that I was going to suggest, Especially with the time constraint, but I would still suggest the Passport if he travels often. I used the Birth Certificate and DL for years with no problem, but when I did, it was a nightmare.
I was on my way to Palm Beach from Abaco in an emergency and somehow missplace my Birth Certificate, I stood at the Counter for an hour trying to get them to let me in. I had my Drivers licenses, and 31 other items in my pocket that said I was from Kansas, that didn't matter. When I expressed my displeasure with the situation,I used my outside voice, I was escorted to a 6X6 room with a window on the door, where I was talked to on and off between the inspections of my person, and Belongings. This all came to a culmination when A lady stood in the doorway and pulled on a pair of Rubber gloves that came past her Elbows. I admit I cried, Then she asked me to come out to the table in the Hall ...........so they could inspect my Cooler. Talk about relieved..... After 4 hours in the room I was taken to the desk where there was a Certified fax copy of my Birth Certificate waiting. I was told that I needed to get a Passport, and soon if I planed to travel as often as I did. If it is lost they can retrieve the information from a data base, and have a new one made even out of country, and if , like with my BC I lose it on the way somehow, they have Computer resources at the Airport to verify your residence and Citizenship . This is not possible with a Birth Certificate because there is no Picture.
So my advice, if your Brother-in-law dosn't like small white rooms, or ladys with long rubber gloves, he needs to get a passport, it will never be denied. Just my two cents though.

[seabiscuit]

seeing all these posts about proper identification reminds me of a story i heard last summer. don't know how true it is, but might be worth checking up on. evidently, someone was injured while on a boat off guana, rushed to marsh harbor by another private boat, to be flown to the hospital in florida. he did not have proper identification on him so had to go to nassau. i didn't normally take my passport out on the boat with me, but it goes fishing with me now........