New Fishing Regs Affecting Foreign Fisherman

[KimR]

Does anyone know whether this announcement is for real????
http://www.bahamasb2b.com/news/wmview.php?ArtID=8461

[PatW]

Yes, this article was also in the Tribune. There have been meetings all over the Bahamas for months about changing the regs.

[R]

Good day,
The regulations are going to change, and they need to be changed, but the problem is that Minister Miller does not know what the existing regulations are.
The existing limits enacted in 1986 are: "total possession per person" and not "per day per person"
Also the existing limit is: 10 Conch per person "total possession" and not 6 "per day per person".
The same goes For Crawfish the current limit is:"total possession" of 6 per person - not 6 "per person per day".
All existing limits are total possession - not per day unless you eat the total limit each day.
I don't understand his statement about warning folks taking undersize Crawfish once - it is their responsibulity to know the size regulations, no warning should be required.
I hope Minister Miller checks into existing regulations prior to enacting new laws or he will actually be raising the limits, and not lowering them as intended

Regards,
R.

[Steve B]

"No Bahamian can drop their line to fish on the shores of Florida or elsewhere - therefore, we should protect what we've got in the same way," Mr Miller said.

Wrong. Any non-resident or foreign visitor to Virginia can "drop their line..." as long as they pay $20.00 (which goes directly to the VA Dept. of Game & Fisheries for wildlife management) for a 5 consecutive day license. Saltwater fishing requires no license; however, all fishermen must abide to established size & limit regulations. Commercial fishing is another matter entirely.

I can't believe that Florida, with its reliance on tourism, doesn't have a similar program.

[SamFamAustin]

Hey R I'm sure you would agree that possession is different from a daily bag limit, and that from a point of practicality, you can't prove "possession." The fish cops just check what you have on board, right? They don't have a clue as to what you caught last Friday or even last year ... see where this is going? So daily bag limits would make their jobs easier, just maybe.

[R]

Good day,
"Total possession" is every fish, crawfish, or conch that you have in your possession. Be it at your Home / Hotel, on the boat, in the freezer at the marina, wherever they may be stashed. Current regulations are all in "total possession" meaning that once you have your 6 Dolphin, or 20# of Grouper, or 6 Crawfish - you are done keeping that type of fish until you eat one of the fish, then with only 10#of Grouper, or 5 crawfish you could keep another until you again reach the limit.
Daily limits would be cumulative - the longer you stay, the more you can take and that would increase the current limit in all but very short trips, and would further pressure the fisheries. As far as enforcement - currently 4 guys can have 24 crawfish period. With daily limits how will Fisheries know when you caught the 912 Crawfish you have on the boat?
R.

[SamFamAustin]

Good point, R. Some states have a daily bag so what some folks do is go fishing before midnight, pick up a quota, take it to the dock, and go fishing to fill up another cooler. It is perfectly legal. It is all clear a mud to me! :)

[big fish]

It's hard to understand the logic of blaming the tourists for any imagined depletion of fish stocks. It seems similar to commercial interests in the US blaming the sport fishermen for depletion there. Just doesn't make sense to me.

IMO, Conch is the only resourse that seems scarce in the Bahamas. Of course, the US has banned the taking of Queen Conch for several years, and it is rebounding nicely. All of the Conch salad that is sold in MH has far more impact on Conch stocks than tourists catching their own. Just my opinion.

Bruce

[elcahun]

About Bag limits. At least in my neck of the woods, it is the fish in your possesion that day. If you catch 5 on a Friday, clean them that night, you can catch five more on Sat. If you haven't cleaned them too bad, you are still at your limit. And it is illegal to clean fish at sea.

Agree that the regulations on the surface seem a little confusing.

[Abacofever]

I wonder how many ghost traps are out there killing all who enter. This could be the main reason the grouper stocks are in trouble, also just to many people. a major problem and the reason all fish traps have been outlawed in Florida.

[SamFamAustin]

LOL, the only fish I "clean" at sea are for trolling tuna! Shhhh.....

As to the crawdad issue, the Bahamians estimate maybe 6.3 million pounds caught in the last year or so, all commercial landings. The impact of recreational catches are not known or measured, so there is some wild speculation about how many pounds are caught that way. Perhaps a solution would be to implement a recreational stamp system so as to estimate the true amount of recreational-caught crawfish. True, it would be rather voluntary, but would be better than nothing, IMHO ... marinas, bait stores, and such could sell or give away stamps like 6 a day for every person and then just count the receipts. I think you may find that the sportsman industry is fairly responsible and the total catches (using real data) might not be as impressive as the rumours suggest ... I hope my proposal doesn't sound too flaky. :)

[KimR]

What depletes the lobster and conch stocks are Bahamians running hookah rigs and taking everything they can find. But it's hard to fault a guy living on subsistence fishing for doing whatever it takes to feed his family. It's also hard to enforce regulations against such harvesting. The cops don't want to do it and the fishermen won't change. They'll just be more careful not to get caught. The fish stock is depleted by commercial fishing, just as it was in the U.S., I am sure. Sprtfishing in a fishery the size of the Bahamas just cannot make enough of a dent. But it is easier to pontificate and punish the sportsfishermen--particularly if they are not voters--than it is to adopt and enforce regs on commercial fishermen.

[R]

Conch are depleted by EVERYONE taking every Conch they find.
Even the folks selling salad bring in undersized Conch and clean them right in front of the whole world without worry.
This is The Bahamas, and Bahamian commercial fishermen have every right to take the up-to measure Crawfish they find.
American boaters always argue the point about their actual impact on the fisheries, because they themselves don't take many Crawfish.
The truth is that at times there are literally hundreds of boats up Walkers way hauling in lots of Crawfish - then running home, many without ever clearing in.
Sportfishing boats do make a large impact on Dolphin / Wahoo / Tuna numbers.
How many fish do you think the 70 boats in the Shootout take in the 4 days of the tournement? That is just one of the many tournements every year - not to mention the American boats chartering in The Bahamas.
Better enforcement is the answer, and we will see if the promised 3 new Fisheries boats actually arrive, and are used to the best of their ability.

Regards,
R.

[Abacofever]

Gota jump on the Fisheries boat thing. Last year they added another patrol boat in Treasure cay, at least for quite a while (several months). on 2 occasions I did see both boats out at the same time. The point is that if you can not afford to put fuel in them, then you can not patrol. It was 2 years ago I think, Carol (fisheries officer) blew up one of the motors on the patrol boat. Govt did not get it fixed for 3 months. So enforcement was only done by driving around the Island because the other boat had to stay in Marsh for the police to use. And on that note, this past year when all the boats were stolen in Treasure. My friend's Bahamin captain traveled with the police to Freeport by boat (police boat) to look for some of the boats in the canals. The police had no money for fuel to return to Treasure, guess who paid ? Not the Police.

[maryg]

R..makes some good points...it is of course impossible to 'police' the entire Bahamas..with regard to the abuse of the fishing regulations...so it seems the best way ...is to amend the regulations in the hope that possible detection....will have some impact...as locals we want our children to enjoy...'catching ' their supper as we have done...............

[Mark Dougherty]

Just had to add my .02 cents. "R" hit the nail squarely on the head on several aspects of this issue. I bonefish on Abaco as often as my budget allows. Catch and realease of course. Would I have a problem being charged a fishing lic. fee ?

No problem....The crayfish have suffered greatly according to some folks I know who do it for a living. Past hurricanes wiped many of those crayfish that should now be of legal taking size. Storms as far back as "Floyd" are still impacting this industry, one few ways to make an honest living in the islands. I was happy to see a reduced possession initiative, but I would also be happy to see even stricter limits for non-bahamians. Bottom line: Fishing Lic Fee$, reduced possession limits and most importantly ENFORCEMENT.

[Wonkee]

OK here are my 2 pennies, some may think they owe me change when Im done so make checks payable to......
OK in the late 80s American Airlines saved their company over $40,000 by removing one Olive from each First class salad.
The Bahamas recently reduced the number of allowed Crawfish, not really as R pointed out, but I'm showing why the rules are important. I am going to do a little math and show how just a little hurts, or helps. A 6inch Lobster will weigh about 4oz( I get this number because My Family has been Crawfishing for over 30yrs and they say so) there are 16oz in a pound. (4x4=16) check with Calculator if necesary there are 16oz in 1lb. check a BettyCrocker box. so that means there are 4 lobster per pound average. as (1lb=16oz=4ozx4lobster) agian use a calculator if you are not getting this. Now the last time I watched a Fisherman sell his Crawfish in 2001 he recived $12 a pound so that means that 4 lobster at 4oz is $12 or (4lobster x 4 oz=16oz=1lb=$12) that is $3.oo a piece for the average 6in tail. ($12/4lobster=$3.00) so we have now established that for each legal lobster you are looking at $3 now I dont know about you but when I get crawfish, knowing that I am only going to be able to get 6 I am going to get the biggest 6 I can find. so they would probably be worth more, but for argument sake we will go with the $3 a piece. If i took those 6 lobster out of a "Trap" which is actually not a trap but a artificial reef. that Lobster go to and from at will. then I just took $18 out of the pocket of a Bahamian Fisherman.($3 per lobster x 6Lobster=$18.00 Now there are 5 people in the boat with me and they all want thier Lobster too, so 5people, + me 1 is 6 people (5+1=6) so 6people at the established $18 is $108 ((6people x 6Lobster=36 lobster) x $3. per lobster = $108.00 per boat. if we all get it from a trap that is $108 from a Bahamian fishermans pocket. Agian check with Calculator as needed. Now if you are only able to take 6lobster per boat now then it is (6lobster per boat x $3 =$18) now you have saved the fisherman $90 (108-36=90) now imagind hundreds of boats swarming on his traps and this time instead of taking 36 lobster they only get 6, that will save him alot of money, and spare the lives of alot of crawfish.The fishermen will not have to work as many traps to get what they usually do leaving some traps to grow. Now take traps out of the picture, and go to Reefs only and you saved the Fisherman the whole $108 from your boat or $18 yourself. Now I dont know how much an olive cost, but if it cost $3 and you left one in every trap, you just gave a fisherman his lively hood back.
I hope this makes sense to you, but after watching my family struggle to make a living Crawfishing, and seeing a boat from another country get overboard and fish thier trap, taking what they have worked so hard for, it starts to make sense.
IN the mean time Pray for all the Boys, and Men that are leaving to go out for the season today, that they have a safe year, and a good year, free of Storms, and theft.

[Wonkee]

sorry to those who read before it was fixed, I have dislexia and did math....it can hurt you.

[SamFamAustin]

My blessings to the fleet, Wonkee. Tuesday is August One. Bless all.

Nothing is wrong with your math ... the shrimp business in our neck of the woods is so bad that half the fleet is tied up at the dock when they should be out for at least a month. Their math lesson was spending $20,000 on diesel and catching $15,000 of shrimp. I will not go into the details as to the reasons, other than it is depressing, a symptom of the global economy.

But the Abacos and Bahamas CAN save their crawdad resources. As you say, a family could go out for a day and catch 6 reef lobsters and be perfectly happy at the dinner table.

Myself? I take pictures (well, I need a new cam) and help the local economy by buying locally caught crawfish! It's the right thing to do.
/Sam

[oldoc2]

Out on the Bank between Bimini and Chub there are many old car hoods-I've also seen a bunch NE of Memory rock-just what do you think those old hoods do for the crawfish??

[R]

Give them somewhere to hide / aggregate for the Bahamian fishermen to harvest.

R.

[SamFamAustin]

Aggregators is what's they're called I believe, altho' not a local term.

Down here we catch blue crab under stuff like that when they're molting.

They're called "soft crabs," fry up real nice whole. Try it!

Sam

[R]

Sam,
It just aint right to talk food like that - unless you bring enough for the whole class.

R.

[SamFamAustin]

Hey talkin' about soft-shell bluecrabs, I haven't explored any crabs at all in the Abacos. Sorry, R, but hey I have a major "jones" going here. Do the locals catch much of any crabs for ... um ... dinner? You have the Blue, Surf, and some weird ones that taste good?

Anyway, not a bad question - I never have heard about the "Crabs of the Abacos." Has anyone some information for my next trip? I might be horrible on the bone fish but I can catch a mean crab and have a blast! :) /Sam

[COOKIE CRUM]

I Can Buy A Lot Of Maine Crawfish For The 1500.00 I Spend To Come Down And Find 1 Or 2 On Corl Heads Never Have Seen A Trap While On The Corls Much Less Stole One From A Fishermans Trap Think Ill Keep My Dollars At Home And Eat Like A King This Aug.1

[PatW]

Boy, you have my mouth watering! I love soft shell crabs...fry those babies nice and crisp and put them between two pieces of bread with tomato and mayo and I can do some damage! I also would love to get a mess of steamed crabs with a cold pitcher of beer! Lawdy, I'm killing myself!




Hey talkin' about soft-shell bluecrabs, I haven't explored any crabs at all in the Abacos. Sorry, R, but hey I have a major "jones" going here. Do the locals catch much of any crabs for ... um ... dinner? You have the Blue, Surf, and some weird ones that taste good?

Anyway, not a bad question - I never have heard about the "Crabs of the Abacos." Has anyone some information for my next trip? I might be horrible on the bone fish but I can catch a mean crab and have a blast! :) /Sam

[island daze]

The root of the problem is that just like anywhere else the fisheries are in a decline due to overfishing and also in a large part to technology.Just think about what an Albury boat and two guys can catch today compared to sail workboat 100 years ago.The government of the Bahamas needs to be very carefull in their reaction to the regulations that the local fishermen want and what they do in relation to the tourist fishing.Just remember that allot of the fish conch and lobster that the locals catch go to feed the dreaded tourist and without them there goes that sale.The important thing to remember is that when a local sells to a restaurant there is no middleman therefore bigger profit take that away and oh well.The best way to work this is to put in regulations that favor the locals but keep the visitors happy and if you slant the new regulations totally towards the locals then you run the risk of the whole tourism house of cards imploding.My two sense and remember it is just an opinion.

[Moderator242]

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