Air Sunshine NTSB report

[Tom R.]

The report is out on last years crash. I found it on Google by typing "air sunshine ntsb". All should read it who fly back and fourth.

[floridacargocat]

Go to : http://ntsb.gov/events/2004/AirSunshine/presentations.htm, and you will find various presentations regarding this accident. One of the questions that I still have is "Why did the pilot not use Deepwater Cay (eastern tip of Grand Bahama) as an alternate airfield, as this must have been the closes airfield at the time of the occurence of the failure of the engine?"
I only hope, that the NTSB report is used by the authorities concerned with aviation transportation safety and security to do their job, and that these agencies do get the proper tools and funding. How much more must happen until "flying to paradise" becomes safer?
What will happen in the case if a few companies will fold for technical, legal or economical reasons? It is not a secret, that the balance sheet of Bahamasair is deep in the red. USAir- despite its expansion program, also out of FLL - is more then unprofitable, Delta is one of the prime candidates for another chapter 11. What is the profitability situation of all the privately held smaller commuter/charter airlines? Are they profitable throughout the year? If they are not profitable, then how in the world can they continue to fly?
A significant part of revenues goes to maintenance to keep the airplanes in the air. Is the money really spent on maintenance? Evidence in the Air Sunshine case indicates, that there is plenty of improvement necessary and possible. In case maintenance money is really spent, then rates need to be looked at to remain profitable, and then, my dear friends on the board, a halfway decent profitability will require a major upward adjustment of rates.
I learned of another aspect of keeping costs down. A Part 135 on-demand aircraft (let's say a 402C) costs about 15 - 20.000 in insurance p.a., the same type aircraft on Part 135 but with commuter authority costs more than double (> 40 k) a year. If you know the law, its exceptions and loopholes, then you have the tools to make some money. Does it make flying safer? It depends on the operator and what he does.

[PJ]

So many things contributed to that accident which is not unusual. It is usually a series of events that makes an aircraft go down.

The one that really got me was the hours on the right engine. 2270 hours on a turbocharged piston engine that cycles frequently is just crazy. Especially when the recommended TBO is 1600 hours. I can't believe the FAA allows that. Plus there was NO compression in the number 2 cylinder, none. How does that plane get signed off as airworthy?

The pilot info was a little scary too. How many times was this guy found to be not current. And this was/is his career? His piloting techniques were not that hot either after the engine failure.

Don't get me wrong. Nobody or nothing is perfect, including me. I am a pilot of a single engine piston aircraft and fly to the Abacos often. I do what I can to stay safe but realize the risks and make mistakes as well.

The lesson, as I see it. Pay a little more if you think your life is worth it. Anyone who chooses an airline based solely on price is asking for trouble. Also, fly turbine powered aircraft when going commercial. They are much safer since they have less moving parts and higher TBO's.

[gatorman]

I would encourage everyone to seriously consider who they choose to fly to the abacos. This stuff is still going on. The list of tragic crashes of airlines operating to the abacos is long and distinguished. Most of them didnt need to happen.

1. If you are about to board a flight to the abacos on any airline and have not had a safety brief demand it!

2. Read the safety breifing cards and know where your life jacket is and the location and operation of the exits.

3. Explain to your children life jacket and emergency exit locations and procedures.

4. If the aircraft dont look right (huge puddle of oil under it or on the skin) say something.

5. If your a rated pilot and as a passenger observe unsafe practices report it to the airlines chief pilot and if nessesary to the FAA. Also spread the word to your friends so they dont fly them.

Bottom line, We as passengers dont have to have our lives put at risk for no reason and there is plenty we can do about it.

I pray for the lives that were lost that day. I pray for the survivors whos lives were changed forever. I pray for all those involved in the operation, admin and maintenence of all the airlines that fly to the abacos, that they would realize the responsibility they have and would do the very best job they can on a daily basis. Amen
Tom R. GTC

[floridacargocat]

Dear Gatorman, "I've had it" and your comments are approaching the core of the problems. Your comments and your expectation as a consumer of this product (safe air transportation to The Bahamas) indicate, that you want to influence this aspect with the only argument a consumer has, buy or not buy this product. I would like to add a few thoughts.
1. Economics. Under today's circumstances, and with hindsight of this particular accident, the consumer (passenger) should ask himself one question: Should I go with one of the larger commuters (such as Continental Express, American Eagle etc.) for a higher rate and have my family safely transported to "paradise" or do I have enough confidence and assurance, that one of the smaller commuters with "very attractive RT ticket rates" can do the job in a safe and reliable way and I can sleep well?
2. Charter companies. Safety and reliability. There are indeed small charter companies, who do not require the special attention of the FAA and DOT, as they do things right (and it costs them quite some money). Are they profitable? They will see that at the nd of the season, at the end of the year, maybe after 3 years. It all depends.
And then there is a multitude of small private airplanes, who do take passengers (for compensation) out to the islands on a friendly basis, which do not fall under the jurisdiction and supervision of the authorities, handling the charter companies. And then then we come to a very grey area, where the consumer does not have sufficient knowledge to decide should I fly with them or not. The DOT is less than pleased with charter companies, flying "under the certificate of ABC" and having their own website. There was a case recently (more to come), as the DOT sees things differently than the FAA.
The NTSB report (as per its charter) describes the circumstances and reasons for this accident, it does not apportion blame. The next phase will be the decisions of the FAA, DOT and Bahamian CAA. This specific saga is not over, and there will be more, as the consumers needs to have the assurance when he buys this product (safe air transportation), that he really gets it. The authorities have to play their role (and get the necessary tools to do it), but the customers also play a role. I do remember praises on various smaller companies in the past, and where are they now?
Market forces do play a role, but the consumer has to contribute to it by deciding do I want to pay a higher rate for a RT ticket, or do I just want get to paradise and spend my money there on the local economy. In the FLL market, the drive is towards lower and lower and lower rates, and the outcry is huge when something happens. If you (customer/passenger) want to continue to have access to safe transportation, then you have 3 choices:
- go with the scheduled airlines ("higher rates")
- go with charter companies that demand rates which let them survive because they do spend the money on training of personnel and maintenance and capital costs and reserves for maintenance
- play
I am in this industry for close to 7 years, and I have seen very very few companies, which follow my philosophy of quality, safety and proper compensation. If the customer does not want to spend the money, then he/she should not buy the product (but here I am on the extreme end of opinions, as "plastic money" is so readily available). Wait until a few companies will not be there any more, because they have to fold.
I am looking forward to receive some comments. So be it.

[Jack Frost]

Accident?
It is ashame that the DOT, FAA and the Bahamian Aviation officials do not put some teeth into their bark or bite. Illegal and not fit charter companies pop up as quick airlines that sell cheap tickets by the seat and confuses the consumers by breaking the Law and Fitness tests. They paint there planes nice and Bright and have attractive counters. The consumer believes that someone high up is watching to make sure they are legal and safe when indeed no one cares until it is to late and someone has died. Only a few are real, and some don't even have there own Aircarrier Certificates, they simply borrow some other companies authorities.
As to the last accident and it's unfortunate loss of life. This carrier was actually a legal carrier but has had numerous accidents and incidents with multiple Fatalities. Why are they still flying? Why don't the Bahamian Goverment stop there access? Accidents will happen but when there is a trail or certain track record that repeats itself what is the majic number of life loss that is great enough to make the authorities act? It unfortunatly lies on the consumers back to do their job. Yes the small carriers are good for competetion and keep the larger regional airlines in check as to thier fares getting out of control. Make sure that they are a legal Scheduled Airline and not just a charter airline by asking them when you book with them. There is a difference! If this DOT report does not put light on the subject of this particular carriers mode of opertion then why have an FAA or DOT at all. Its like having a policeman that does nothing when faced with investigating a career criminals crime or a fireman that keeps putting out fires set by a repeated arsonist when they have licensed him to do so. Hey feds wake up and do your JOB! It should not be our job to dig and dig to see if we are indeed being carried by safe and competent carriers.
Jack

[PJ]

How about looking out for your self. All this talk about the FAA, BAA, DOT etc is not the point the way I see it. Relying on these people to protect you seems silly. Why not ask people who know a little about the subject, like pilots. I haven't met too many pilots that won't talk about flying. Learn about the aircraft you will be boarding. Ask around about the different carriers. Why put your life in someone elseÕs hands without acquiring some basic knowledge about flying yourself. It seems to me like you could significantly increase your chances of arriving safely by learning about the subject and making informed choices instead of relying on someone else to look out for you.

[George]

I am a private pilot, and for many years owned and flew light twins. I am very familiar with the limitations of these aircraft and know that the safety margin is highly dependent on excellent maintenance, and operational discipline. After seeing several crashes of light twins in charter and commuter ops in Abaco, I resolved to fly only the carriers that utilize turbine powered aircraft (which are flown by two pilots and are much more reliable). However, in a rush trip after Hurricane Jeanne I did fly over on Calypso. I found their equipment and operation to be first rate, and wouldn't hesitate to fly with them again.

[Jack Frost]

When you go to the emergency room and a Doctor appears you assume since the hospital let him set up shop there that he is legal and certified. When you go to the Dentist office to have your teeth cleaned you assume since he or she is working there that they are certified. Do you have to be a doctor or a dental professional in these 2 examples to remain safe? I could go on and on.
The goverments of both the US and Bahamas pay people very well who are suppose to look out for your safety. Good for you that you are a private pilot and know how to fly. Why dont you visit the DOT website and see how the Airline you talk about (first rate)and are impressed with got a present from the DOT for impersonating an Airline with proper certification. And you were impressed. I have over 13000 hours in numerous types, categories and classes both turbine and recip heavy and light Aircraft and I have to look close to see who is real. The airports dont even look that close at whats setting up as to there legal or illegal activities. Come on now how is the layman going to tell the difference until a death has occured. It is the Feds responsibiliy!
Jack

[skymaster]

A few points to ponder;

1) You get what you pay for. There is a threshold in which charter companies can carry on business without sacrificing safety.

2) Any small charter service is a "typically a training ground" for pilots willing to trade salary for "time".

3) Smaller the "fleet" of aircraft the less the operation can afford to have an aircraft down for maintenance and is more likely to compromise safety.

4) Major causes of accidents is pilot error, followed by pilot error, followed by pilot judgement, followed by pilot stupidity! Hardware malfunctions due occur but are usually associated with lack of proper maintenance. (Pilots decisions can be influenced by possible reprimands from their superiors.)

5) The FAA does not have the resources to monitor these operations at a meaningful level.

6) It takes very little capital to get into the business but takes a much larger amount of working capital to sustain the business.

Summary

Maintaining aircraft is an expensive proposition and there are no SHORTCUTS
Take the time to research your alternatives and make an informed decision. If you don't feel comfortable either ask questions, or abort the flight!
Turboprops do imply a much higher level of operations and safety. Pilots and insurance companies require a higher level of skills and training.
The objective is to minimize your risk.
Abaco is not for sissies ! :)

.... from an old pilot.

Bob

[Jack Frost]

Well put old Pilot. However I believe the feds have enough resources today they In my opinion focus on the wrong areas. They hound and nit pick the good operators while others not properly licensed run free. Maybe part of the problem goes back to something I read along time ago that the demand to the Abaco's is higher than the legal seats availible. Just a thought.
Jack

[skymaster]

"I believe the feds have enough resources today they In my opinion focus on the wrong areas"

Jack

True enough........ but in this case you have a jurisdictional issue between two Countries depending on where the aircraft is registered, and where the corporate entity is located.. (lots of room for finger pointing when events like this occur).
It is not on the FAA's "radar".

Bob

[Gray Heustess]

Is this the appropriate forum to post opinions on specific charter airlines? My family, friends and I fly to the Abacos on a charter airline from New Smyrna Beach. I am not a pilot but I am interested in aviation and try to observe the details. I have been satisfied with their service, especially during the hurricanes and they are not the cheapest. I understand the risk involved and the convenience (I sailed to the Bahamas for 20 years), but how do I know without being an expert or an insider, if best practices are really being followed?

[gatorman]

You do get what you pay for. Unfortunately, as our economy changes, airline salaries will continue to drop. Along with this comes an equal drop in piloting skills. The NTSB report in the crash in question reflects this. There will also be maintainance lapses as shoestrong operations try to stay in business. Unfortunately, there is no way to know EXACTLY what you are getting.

Personally, I would only fly a turbine AC with two pilots. Secondly, I would rely on any information I could get my hands on as to the quality of the operation. Low fares is not part of this equation. Thirdly, I would carefully watch the way the operators actually operate.

I flew over to The Bahamas within the last two years and observed BOTH pilots of the AC pull out the latest newspaper, spread them across the panel and windscreen, and began to read away as they were still climbing out of a TCA, on auto-pilot.

If you think you see a pilot exhibit less than professional behavior, call the airline and ask to speak to the chief pilot. Call anyone else you care to. I'm not sure if putting a call into a regulatory agency will work or not, unfortunately. The best way to deal with a problem is run your cam-corder and turn the tape over to a news media outlet. They love to get their hands on tape revealing pilots reading books and sleeping. Unfortunately, this is the only way to get the government's attention.

I was also a passenger on a now defunct carrier, headed to the Abacos, sitting in the right seat, and observed the pilot taxi onto an active runway as a large jet commercial aircraft was taking off. The other AC actually rotated and passed about 50 feet over us. The pilot turned to me and said "sorry about that."

I called the FAA the second I got off the airplane to report the near-miss, which I knew neither the pilot or air traffic controller would do and never got anywhere. They weren't even interested in obtaining my name.

It is pretty sad when the agencies who are supposed to be protecting us don't even care. I am actually a pilot myself.

Finally, did anyone REALLY read the details of the crash report (I won't call it an accident) and do the math with the figures provided by the NTSB. It is more than frightening.

Second finally, do you ALL realize that The Bahamas has absolutely NO Search and Rescue capability???????? If you go into the water, you are either going to have to rely on volunteers who operate with virtually no funding or the USCG which in this case was over two hours away. That is a long time to attempt to float in the ocean with an infant in your hands.

Steve Rutledge (Gatorman)