Abaco, Sugar Mill late 70's early 80's

[Tuna]

Hello,

I am looking for some information about a place I stayed at in the early 80's while an uncle was working in Abaco. His company was hired to dismantle the remains of an old sugar mill on Abaco. Apparently we stayed at some cabins that were built for the workers of the sugar mill. But the cabins area was not near the sugar mill. What I remember is that there were about 4 cabins grouped together and they were very close to the shore/beach. Also nearby was a canal which we could also walk to through some woods. The area was relatively abandoned however there were some other homes furhter up the road which were empty. All the homes and cabins were very modest.

Getting there from the airport and the nearest town was by a dirt road that was a seriously rough ride.

I know there isnt much here as far as information but if anyone could possibly identify this area I would appreciate it.

[susanabaco]

It Sounds Like Snake Creek I Think

[SusieAndAl]

Hi Tuna,

It also might be Casuarina Point. We have a friend who worked on the sugar back then; he's currently out to sea but we'll ask him when he gets back & I'll PM you with the correct answer.

[Tuna]

Thanks!

[Wonkee]

It is Cassurina, My father Worked for the Sugar Mill, and lived on Abaco at the time.

Hi Tuna,

It also might be Casuarina Point. We have a friend who worked on the sugar back then; he's currently out to sea but we'll ask him when he gets back & I'll PM you with the correct answer.

[R]

Casuarina for sure.

R.

[HALF-A-HAMIAN]

Yep, that would be Casuarina Point. I did the interior paint and exterior stain on those units back in circa '70-'71. There was no canal there at the time, that was dredged later. I learned to dislike painting, but I liked eating more! It really saddened me to see the disrepair and neglect these houses were allowed to fall to. They are definitely an eyesore now. Hope to move to that area in the near future, between Cherokee and Bahama Palm.

[L0NG L00K 2]

Snake Cay is where the Owens Illinois set up a pulp wood operation in 1959

[pvanga]

Wonkee, I was just checking out the website and saw your post. You say your dad worked for Owens Illinois? I am curious, My family lived on Abaco from 1968-71 and may know your family. We lived at Casuarina Point. The family name is Vanscoy.

[Cathy Arizona]

Speaking of Casuarina, we noticed a number of houses built on the beach. Not sitting up on coral, isn't that a much greater risk during hurricane season? We were looking to buy there but that was my husband's biggest concern. It sure is gorgeous there and I fell in love with that area.

[R]

Cathy,
The Cays, and shallow water off Casuarina help to minimize the storm surge in the area.
If properly built - the piers will be drilled thru the sand, and down to rock below.
Wind damage, and not wave action in this area is the biggest concern in my opinion.

Regards,
R.

[Abacointerlude]

Interesting thread. I lived in Abaco from 1968-71 and my father worked as an engineer at the Owens Illinois sugar factory. Would be interesting to see some recent photographs of Casuarina Point and Snake Cay. Does anyone have any available to post? Would greatly appreciate it. Thanks!

[CasuarinaPoint1969]

I know this is an older thread but if anyone is still around............I lived in Casuarina
Point as a child also. My parents are Bob and Mimi Chandler, my Dad worked for O-I. My Dad went down from Toledo in 1965 and my Mom, my brothers Mike and Bill, my sister Marianne and I joined him a little while later in 1966. We were able to stay until late 1969.

I would love to here from anyone that was there. I would really love to see any pictures also - old or new. My parents said our house survived the 1999 storms, but I don't know if it's still there or what state it's in, especially after 2004. I hope to be able to visit one of these days!

The Vanscoys (is that you Pam?) were in Abaco at the same time and were our neighbors again after moving back to Michigan!

Wish I were there!

Sue (Chandler) Stevenson

[HALF-A-HAMIAN]

Don't have any old photos, but this would have been your view at low tide, looking at Duck Cay. Didn't get to hob-nob much with O.I./B.A.I.L. company officers. Some of the houses are still occupied, others have trees growing through them.

[CasuarinaPoint1969]

Thanks for posting the pictures. They're beautiful. I know if (when) I go back to Abaco it will not be anything like I remember, but still beautiful. I do remember the amazing beach and ocean right outside our house, and my Mom's sail boat. I'm sure I didn't appreciate my surroundings then like I would now!

[Abacointerlude]

Hi Sue,

That was Pam's post. I exchanged a few emails with her. My dad was Bob Maginley and we left Casuarina in 1971.

I see you now live in Traverse City, Michigan. We live in Toledo again after having lived in a few other odd places.

I revisited Abaco last summer but don't recall seeing your old house. It might be there but it would have been renovated or changed beyond immediate recognition. Here's a story I wrote about the trip:
http://www.organissimo.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=35487

Paul Maginley

[Zancada]

What an interesting walk down memory lane! And the pictures were super!

[DannyB]

WOW!

Paul,:cool:

I just finished reading your post on organissimo.
What a great story! and photographs.

I know exactly how you felt on those deserted roads and beaches on the southern tip of Abaco.
But, I'll tell ya,those are some of my favorite places;Hole in the Wall,Casurina,"the nekkid beach" and Sandy Point.

PattyB and I did quite a bit of exploring there in her old Honda Prelude.
Amazingly that vehicle took us to places that I would've only expected an off the road SUV to be able to go.

DannyB

[R-Time]

what a great story. I was hoping there would be more!!!

You guys were so fortunate to live there as children and experience the way it used to be.

Thanks for sharing!!

[BahamaAngie]

Interesting story, sad too???!

[momshell]

I so enjoyed reading your post about the history of the area. We snorkeled around snake cay years ago, and there were 2 old men fishing off the dock area. I have never made it down south of Petes Pub/Little Harbour, so the photos of the southern tip of Abaco were a treat. Thanks so much for sharing.

[Abacointerlude]

Thanks for all the kind words, folks!

Did you see any coral when you snorkelled off of Snake Cay? There used to be a lot back in 1968, but I couldn't see any when I scanned the ocean from the beaches last year. I remember seeing Lion Fish amongst other things back in the 60s.

[CasuarinaPoint1969]

Hi Paul,

Thanks for sharing your stories, it was wonderful reading them, sad too. If only we could go back............and have it all be the same!

Isn't that Pam in your school picture? I'll have to try and drop her a note. it's been so long since we've seen them.

We moved to Temperance Michigan after the Bahamas. My Dad worked in downtown Toledo until he retired. We moved up to Traverse City about 15 years ago.

I remember hanging out pestering the construction workers when they were building our house. We stayed in a little green house/cottage in Casuarina while they built our home. We were the first family to move to that area so there were no homes yet. That meant there weren't any children either so I guess thats why I bugged the workers!

There was a boy around my age that I hung out with. His name was Junior and he would come over with his Mom, Gertrude. She worked for my parents a little. That first year I went to a Catholic school. My brothers and sister and one other child went to a different school (they were all older), and were taught by a teacher brought down from OI I think. By the second year, more families moved down and there were more kids in the school.

I still have a bottle of sugar that is labeled "First Sugar From Sugar Mill. 20 January 1969. Marsh Harbor, Abaco." I remember going to the Butler Building to see my Dad at work. My parents have a small book from Abaco with a picture of him standing by the sugar cane with a machete in his hand.

I remember the Robert Fulton also, in it's last days. I've read alot about it in stories from David and Kathy Ralph, and I'm not really sure how much I actually remember or how much of it is from what I've read! My parents had talked about them over the years and I know that they started and still run the newspaper, The Abaconian. I've been reading that for some time and that is what led me to this site. What a wonderful way to stay just a little bit connected!

The doctor there at the time was Dr. Gotleib (sp?). I remember him because when my oldest brothert was 8 or 9 he was diagnosed with Diabetes. Actually my Mom figured out what was wrong with him and brought him to Dr. Gotleib who confirmed it and helped make arrangements to get him over to Florida to the hospital.

I also remember going over to Cherokee in our little boat. It was so different over there. I remember going to a little store, and also someone who made wonderful fresh bread. It's funny, the fragments I remember. It's not so much the buildings or places, but the people. Like Bernard, a man from Cherokee that was around a lot. I think he did odd jobs for my family, and probably many others. He told me there were little miniature monkeys that came out of the Monkey Fidler plants outside our house, but only after dark. I would try and stay awake every night and sneak out to "catch" the monkeys.

When my parents left Abaco, they did purchase a lot in Casuarina. It's close to where we used to live (Lot 100), but unfortunately not on the water. I would still love to go see where it's at though!

Sorry for rambling so long!

[Abacointerlude]

Great memories, Sue!

My father remembers your Dad. I guess you guys returned to America in 1969 and the plant ran for another year plus a bit afterwards. Dad also remembers visiting your parents in Temperance, Michigan when we moved to the States. He has good memories of your father, whom he liked very much.

Yes, Pam is in the school picture. I don't recall you personally (though I remember your Dad.) Perhaps it is because you didn't attend the same school? Were you Pam's age at the time?

It was amazing how quiet Casuarina was last year. People had houses but they weren't out and about. It was a weekday so I suppose they were at work. Somebody's dog tailed us around as we tried to catch a few fish off the beach. Whenever a school of muharra (we called them shad) swam by my hook, the dog would jump into the water and scare them away! I could only catch one fish! Couldn't shake that dog to save my life!

The Robert Fulton was actually brought up on the dock for a period of time. I don't recall what happened to it, but all traces of it were gone by the time we arrived in 1969. Dad remembers dining in the boat on an earlier visit to Abaco. I know the Abaconian ran an article about the ship in one of its papers.

Superficial changes on Casuarina from 1969 to last year: where were the starfish? And the conchs? There used to be plentiful examples of both species back in the day. It seems that conch fishing has become a huge endeavor and the supplies have dwindled. Perhaps the starfish had disappeared owing to reduced amount of coral as well.

Personally, I don't necessarily wish we could return to those days. Times come and go and we change. I view it as fruitless and silly to wish for a complete return to what has already passed. Life just doesn't work that way. I know you know that too, and that this is all rather obvious. I guess that I just appreciate the opportunity to return and see the changes as well as see what hasn't really changed much at all.

Our friends who post on this forum can still enjoy the wonders of Abaco just as we did. From that standpoint, I think the changes have been minimal. Details have changed but the overall picture is the same. I really think that to hearken back and wish for a complete return is in some way a rejection of life. We just can't think that way. Life is about change, right folks?

Some have mentioned that my story of Abaco was sad. I suppose it is to some exent, but I don't view it in that way. Change is inevitable and we have to go along with it without completely forgetting what happened long ago. I think it was one of Faulkner's characters who said, "The past is not dead; in fact, it's not even the past." In other words, the past exists along with the present. It hasn't died off completely!

We can enjoy Casuarina today for what it is while realizing its past is very much alive as well. The bottom line is that Abaco is still a wonderful place today as evidenced by the great posts people write on this forum. I love to read the threads about trips and adventures today.

Hope we can meet and chat one day.
Paul

[HALF-A-HAMIAN]

I, for one, won't let the memories die. CP1969, can you remember if the Bernard from Cherokee had only the index finger and thumb on one hand? If so, his last name is Lowe and I believe family told me he was living on Grand Bahama now. The bread you smelled baking was probably my grandmother's. She was up in the fore-day mixing and kneading and usually baked 50+ loaves a day. The taxi driver for Cherokee, Gurney Sands, would take a box full several times a week to meet the plane for the States for orders from folks who couldn't get enough. As far as conchs and starfish, they're making a come-back, if left to mature.
There's not much I didn't do at sugarcane. I worked at the Butler building in the shop, drove truck, tractor operator, harvestor operator, fuel trucks, welding truck, painting on the houses at Casuarina, even a stint as a field foreman. Lots of 12hr./7 day weeks, rain or shine, cold or hot and all this at first class operators' wage of B$1.98/hr with no overtime pay. Yes, it was sickening for me to return and see the fruits of my labour in ruins, too, and I'd be glad to go back to those tougher, but much happier times! :cool:

[JJ]

Thanks all! I am really enjoying this thread. I am a relative newcomer to the Abacos with my first visit in 1987, but the discussion does take me back to the places in my past and how they have changed.

[BahamaAngie]

I think what we seem to all long for is the way life was so much simpler. I think progress sometimes ruins things. Like there use to be one car, one tv (which the family watched together) one phone. Now everyone is going every which way and we lose something. Meal times everyone gathered at the table....how many families actually do that without a tv, cell phone or whatever? And I think that is what the past represents....the simplicity of life together! (I sound like a soap box person). Glad you made it back safely JJ.111111111111111

[Abacointerlude]

I, for one, won't let the memories die. CP1969, can you remember if the Bernard from Cherokee had only the index finger and thumb on one hand? If so, his last name is Lowe and I believe family told me he was living on Grand Bahama now. The bread you smelled baking was probably my grandmother's. She was up in the fore-day mixing and kneading and usually baked 50+ loaves a day. The taxi driver for Cherokee, Gurney Sands, would take a box full several times a week to meet the plane for the States for orders from folks who couldn't get enough. As far as conchs and starfish, they're making a come-back, if left to mature.
There's not much I didn't do at sugarcane. I worked at the Butler building in the shop, drove truck, tractor operator, harvestor operator, fuel trucks, welding truck, painting on the houses at Casuarina, even a stint as a field foreman. Lots of 12hr./7 day weeks, rain or shine, cold or hot and all this at first class operators' wage of B$1.98/hr with no overtime pay. Yes, it was sickening for me to return and see the fruits of my labour in ruins, too, and I'd be glad to go back to those tougher, but much happier times! :cool:I remember a little about Bernard. He visited our house a few times for drinks. Dad said he loved his Bacardi! He was hired as a foreman to oversee the cane cutters in the fields. He went out fishing with my Dad a few times, though I never joined them. Dad said that Bernard was close to the Chandler's. His last name might have been Lowe or it could have been Sawyer. Hard to remember.

An interesting sidelight about the factory was that different groups of experts brought different experiences and ideas to the project. Both the West Indian and the Cuban-American experts came from sugar backgrounds, as the Cuban-Americans often had experience in Louisiana. But the whole sugar cane venture was really a trade off on the part of Owens Illinois and the British-run government. OI would provide jobs for Bahamians in exchange for access to the wood pulp on Andros Island. Dad feels that the company never expected to make money off the sugar venture. The losses, however, were greater than what could be accepted.

[HALF-A-HAMIAN]

I ventured my opinion, that they should sell out to Bacardi, Bahamas and it may have still been operating. There were also several Cajuns brought in as foremen, because of their ability to speak Creole. The pidgeon dialect of the Haitians was so different, they couldn't understand them, unless they spoke fluent French also, which the Haitians could speak and understand. The Cuban foremen had better luck, as the sharing of the island with the Dominican Republic gave lend to most of the Haitians having at least a minor understanding of Spanish. Most of the time though, it was a circus to watch, and eventually there were a couple english-speaking, college-educated, made foremen to translate. One, named Dumas, had attended universities throughout Europe and the Americas, and could speak 28 languages. He was placed in charge of payroll to the Haitian workers. It seems he was also involved in the occult and voodoo, even offered to teach me to fly, but it involved drinking chicken blood and such, so I declined, but there was some mighty peculiar events that made one wonder!

[Abacointerlude]

I ventured my opinion, that they should sell out to Bacardi, Bahamas and it may have still been operating. I remember Dad telling me some interesting stuff regarding Bacardi. The sugar cane byproduct offered to Bacardi didn't meet their standards. Dad was all for adding in some richer molasses and getting the chemists to meet Bacardi's standards, but the man in charge at the time (I'm not naming names!) was against it. He was concerned about maxing out his sugar quality stats and publishing them at a Louisiana conference. In the end, the sugar specs were private property of OI and didn't need to be published at all. There were further disagreements regarding the bagasse waste product. The manager was quite happy with a low quality waste product which was sold as animal feed in the US. This came at higher fuel consumption, as well, which ran production costs sky high. Again, some additives could have improved the bagasse and the right sacchirides (which ferments into alcohol for rum) could have been made. I am sorry but I know very little about sugar and I've tried to reproduce my father's comments by memory.

[momshell]

BahamaAngie- I am with you. I have 2 daughters, now 10 and 13, and a husband who is a pilot and gone all of the time- and all we do is run all day long in different directions. Cheer practice, cotillion, school clubs, friends houses, etc. That is exactly why we escape to Abaco in the summers. We always rent a place with no tv, phone, or stereo. The great thing is that NOBODY asks for a tv or even misses it. We fish, swim, explore and re-connect. We have tried to figure out a million times how we can get there to live full time- even for a year sabbatical- but it never seems to be a possibility. I love hearing all of the stories about simpler times in Abaco, and even though things have progressed there, it still is so much nicer and purer than anywhere else these days.



I think what we seem to all long for is the way life was so much simpler. I think progress sometimes ruins things. Like there use to be one car, one tv (which the family watched together) one phone. Now everyone is going every which way and we lose something. Meal times everyone gathered at the table....how many families actually do that without a tv, cell phone or whatever? And I think that is what the past represents....the simplicity of life together! (I sound like a soap box person). Glad you made it back safely JJ.111111111111111

[beachcomber60]

Yes, that is definitely CP, however, Half a Hamian should visit it, it no longer is the run down community of yesteryear. New homes abound and so is the population..

[HALF-A-HAMIAN]

I was there June-July last year and have a first cousin and other family and friends that live there. Yes, it has developed nicely, but there are still a few of the old houses in ruin that should be torn down. I'm not exactly a stranger.

[Half-of-Half]

I was there July, and Aug of this year, and spent several days in Cassurina. They still have several houses that have trees growing up through, yards that resemble jungle, sagging roofs, and even bare slabs. You know general disrepair, but hey it is growing, they have a fire department. things are moving up. I think Half is referring to how it is compared to how it was when he was young when all the houses were new.

[Abacointerlude]

It seems appropriate to bring up this thread once again to coincide with Casuarinapoint1969 wonderful stories and pictures.